The GMMG Registry Forum

FROM THE GMMG REGISTRY



What are the engine upgrades from GMMG (from Ron @ Vengance)



Phase I-

Whisper Air Lid

Upgraded MAF Housing

ASP Underdrive

Ported Exhaust Manifolds

GMMG Chambered Exhaust

Custom Programming VIA LS1 Edit (All that was available at the time)



ZL1 and Dick Harrell Camaros Phase I was an actual LS6 - '427' Crate Engine from GM



Phase II added

long tube Headers

Catted Y pipe

Upgraded Cylinder Heads

Custom Camshaft

Hardened Pushrods

Ported Throttlebody



All advertised #s from GMMG were at the FLYWHEEL...

QUESTION ? JUST ABOUT THE 380 HP CARS.. WERE THE STOCK LS1 MOTORS ALL PULLED AND REPLACED AT GMMG WITH LS6 OR JUST UPGRADED IN CAR ??

Maybe Jim can chime in on exactly what is the power breakdown on the mysterious PHASE II. With a total of 4 power levels, no other PHASE comes close to the number of power outputs as PHASE II.



The PHASE II is 435HP/410TQ then there is the PHASE II 475HP/???TQ then there is the PHASE II with 500HP/475TQ but then there is the 525HP one of which I do not know the name of.



So basically,



1) Are there 2 regular PHASE II, one at 435 and one at 475?

1) How much HP and torque does the PHASE IIX have?

2) What is the name of the 525HP PHASE and how much torque does it have.



Cheers

I disagree with some of what has been posted above.



Phase 2 in the LS1 engine was 435 h.p.

Phase 2 in the LS6 engine like mine in he ZL-1 was 475 h.p.

Phase 2X in the LS1 engine was 475 h.p.

Phase 2X6 in the LS1 engine (I believe) was the 500 h.p. and 525 h.p. editions/models.



** Keep in mind..............................no "numbered" ZL-1 ever had a LS1 engine. All LS1 engines were removed from the ZL-1's and we (the original owners) had the opportunity to purchase these engines from our B4C Camaro before they were converted to ZL-1's and the LS6 engines were installed in the Phase I and Phase II cars or the C5R in the Phase III cars.



Mike Carnahan would be the best one to correct this "if" I am wrong.

@GMMG Blackbird wrote:Let me see if I can nail this. Phase 2. 435HP 410TQ. Phase 2x. 475HP 450TQ. Some Phase 2x cars had 440TQ. J.D.'s ZL1. Phase 2x6 . 500HP 475TQ. Phase 2xt. 525HP Torque unknown. Maybe 500? 35th Anniversary Edition Blackbird #17 has a YouTube video and it says Phase 2xt 525HP. Somewhere on LS1 Tech there is a thread mentioning this Phase 2xt but I don't think it gave the torque rating.



I have never heard of a PHASE IIX6T with a "T" at the end. It is possible but we would need some evidence to back it up.



Blackbird34 makes the claim that the highest PHASE II was called the X6R with an "R" at the end which I have heard about a few times before but have never seen a GMMG build sheet proving it.



I will go with the "R" designation for now unless we find some evidence proving otherwise.



I have updated the list in the first post to reflect this.

@Blackbird34 wrote:Here is the info I got from Mike Carnahan a couple of years ago on the phase breakdowns. He should know because he made them up so he knew the difference in the motors.



Phase 2 -435hp (early build phase 2 and not done anymore after the Phase 2X was a developed)

Phase 2X -475 hp Change heads and cam combo

Phase 2X6 -500 hp more torque than P2X -bigger cam and LS6 heads

Phase 2X6R -525hp 7000 rpms Balls to the Walls!

Phase 3 -600hp

Phase 3X- 630 hp Changed heads/cam/intake ported more rpm

Phase 4 -700 hp plus 427 SR Experimental only 1 ever built ZL1-69

Phase 5- 680-700 hp 454 tons of torque

Phase ?- HP?? When you see it you will know it!!



**note- all the Phase 2 packages listed above are for the LS1 engine

@Blackbird34 wrote:Phase 2X 475 hp package - 450TQ ***(Per Mike C.)



5.3 CNC ported and hand polished race flow heads (flow over 315cfm and 260cfm), (cam choice of about 5 different ones dependant on customers needs), Header choice TSS or SS Dynatechs with cats, Hardened pushrods, LS6 valve springs, hand ported throttle body, new gaskets/bolts, Lightweight flywheel, red valve covers, LCA relocation, Red motorsports plug wires, NGK plugs, Red brake calipers, different air lid stickers, documentation,GMMG second window sticker, Automatic cars got Yank TQ converters (choice) BM transcooler. Tuning and Install included and rev limiter raised to 6500.



RWHP range 420-450- Automatics slightly less due to drivetrain



Phase 2X6- Everything above except LS6 heads 10-15 RWHP gain and torque



Phase 2X6R- Everything above except ARP studs all around, ARP rod bolts, Notch pistons for max camshafts( (not recommened for a daily driver or your wife) REVS to the moon for max HP!



Also offered as upgrades were Subframes,Rollcages, Clutches, Bigger brake packages, Rims and tires



Blackbird34 makes an interesting case where LS1 and LS6 motors had their own set of PHASES. This is starting to make sense guys !



Thanks for the input Blackbird34, I will add this in the first post of the thread!

@4th Gen Camaro Addict wrote:I disagree with some of what has been posted above.



Phase 2 in the LS1 engine was 435 h.p.

Phase 2 in the LS6 engine like mine in he ZL-1 was 475 h.p.

Phase 2X in the LS1 engine was 475 h.p.

Phase 2X6 in the LS1 engine (I believe) was the 500 h.p. and 525 h.p. editions/models.



** Keep in mind..............................no "numbered" ZL-1 ever had a LS1 engine. All LS1 engines were removed from the ZL-1's and we (the original owners) had the opportunity to purchase these engines from our B4C Camaro before they were converted to ZL-1's and the LS6 engines were installed in the Phase I and Phase II cars or the C5R in the Phase III cars.



Mike Carnahan would be the best one to correct this "if" I am wrong.



I think you just unlocked the secret to this mystery JD which backs up Blackbird34's information. LS1 and LS6 equipped GMMG cars had their own separate phases. For example, a PHASE II in an LS1 is 435HP and in an LS6 is 475HP.



Now the question remains; since a LS1 PHASE IIX and a LS6 PHASE II are both 475HP, what happens after that with the 500HP and 525HP PHASES? are both the LS1 and LS6 capable of having 500HP and 525HP PHASES?



In reality, the same modifications with the same results can be performed to both the LS1 and LS6. Matt M probably just wanted to distinguish between the two.

Phil....................I still believe your list is incorrect. "I think" the only cars that GMMG ever put an LS6 in were the 2002 "numbered" ZL-1's and "possibly" some of the Dick Harrell cars. I know that GMMG eventually did put the C5R in other cars but no cars (to my knowledge) were ever orginally produced with the C5R other than "some" of the ZL-1's and "some" of the Dick Harrell cars. The modification to Phase IIX, Phase IIX6, etc. were all LS1 engines. If I am wrong on this, please someone correct me. I have been wrong about some things before in my life and I'm sure that I will be again.

@4th Gen Camaro Addict wrote:Phil....................I still believe your list is incorrect. "I think" the only cars that GMMG ever put an LS6 in were the 2002 "numbered" ZL-1's and "possibly" some of the Dick Harrell cars. I know that GMMG eventually did put the C5R in other cars but no cars (to my knowledge) were ever orginally produced with the C5R other than "some" of the ZL-1's and "some" of the Dick Harrell cars. The modification to Phase IIX, Phase IIX6, etc. were all LS1 engines. If I am wrong on this, please someone correct me. I have been wrong about some things before in my life and I'm sure that I will be again.



JD, everything you said is correct, only the ZL1 and Harrell cars received the LS6 as a PHASE 1 and I have changed the list to represent this.



Although I do believe that in the higher PHASE II upgrades, GMMG made the same PHASE upgrades to an LS1 as an LS6.



For example, since a LS1 PHASE IIX and a LS6 PHASE II are both 475HP, the next PHASES IIX6 and IIX6R I believe were both available on LS1 and LS6 engines but I am not 100% sure of this therefore I need someone to confirm if this is truly the case.

Again Phil......................I think that only Mike Carnahan will be able to clarify all of this to us.